Division
Gavin Marshall The question is that Senator Xenophon's amendments (4), (5), (6), (8) and (9) on sheet 7672 be agreed to. Nick Xenophon I reiterate and indicate that the amendments I have moved would require the Public Interest Advocate, in addition to having broader powers, to be a contradictor—in other words, to be a genuine devil's advocate in relation to a journalist's information warrant being obtained. A key element of it, which has similarities and parallels with the American system or the American approach to this, is that, as a general rule, there will be consultation with media outlets. The Americans—our closest allies—do not have a problem when seeking journalists' metadata to consult, as a general principle— Cory Bernardi They believe in free speech. Nick Xenophon They believe in free speech, Senator Bernardi. Cory Bernardi And they wouldn't agree to section 18C. Nick Xenophon I am not going to get into a debate about section 18C. I am pleased that Senator Bernardi—without verballing him—is enamoured with the American approach to freedom of speech, which would be consistent with protecting journalists' sources in order that— Senator Bernardi interjecting— Deborah O'Neill Senator Xenophon, I urge you to ignore the interjections of Senator Bernardi. Nick Xenophon Madam Temporary Chair, can I say that your urging is very wise. It is easy to be distracted by my colleague from South Australia. Consideration must be given to this amendment, because our public interest advocates will be flying blind. They will not have access to journalists. They will not be able to speak to journalists or to media organisations to ask, 'What is this about?' as they do in the US, as a general principle, unless it is a matter of an emergency in terms of security and the like, in terms of an imminent risk. They will not be able to do that. There ought to be that level of scrutiny; otherwise, my fear is contained in the words of Philip Dorling, a great investigative journalist, in
Senate, 2015-03-26. negative: ayes 15, noes 30.
Question
Gavin Marshall The question is that Senator Xenophon's amendments (4), (5), (6), (8) and (9) on sheet 7672 be agreed to. Nick Xenophon I reiterate and indicate that the amendments I have moved would require the Public Interest Advocate, in addition to having broader powers, to be a contradictor—in other words, to be a genuine devil's advocate in relation to a journalist's information warrant being obtained. A key element of it, which has similarities and parallels with the American system or the American approach to this, is that, as a general rule, there will be consultation with media outlets. The Americans—our closest allies—do not have a problem when seeking journalists' metadata to consult, as a general principle— Cory Bernardi They believe in free speech. Nick Xenophon They believe in free speech, Senator Bernardi. Cory Bernardi And they wouldn't agree to section 18C. Nick Xenophon I am not going to get into a debate about section 18C. I am pleased that Senator Bernardi—without verballing him—is enamoured with the American approach to freedom of speech, which would be consistent with protecting journalists' sources in order that— Senator Bernardi interjecting— Deborah O'Neill Senator Xenophon, I urge you to ignore the interjections of Senator Bernardi. Nick Xenophon Madam Temporary Chair, can I say that your urging is very wise. It is easy to be distracted by my colleague from South Australia. Consideration must be given to this amendment, because our public interest advocates will be flying blind. They will not have access to journalists. They will not be able to speak to journalists or to media organisations to ask, 'What is this about?' as they do in the US, as a general principle, unless it is a matter of an emergency in terms of security and the like, in terms of an imminent risk. They will not be able to do that. There ought to be that level of scrutiny; otherwise, my fear is contained in the words of Philip Dorling, a great investigative journalist, in
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